How David Fleming Embraced Imperfection to Capture The Last of Us Atmosphere
How David Fleming Embraced Imperfection to Capture The Last of Us Atmosphere
David Fleming reveals to The Blank Mag how broken instruments, bold risks, and collaborations with Gustavo Santaolalla, Neil Druckmann, and Craig Mazin shaped the score for the latest season of The Last of Us.
If you’ve watched a blockbuster in the last few years, chances are you’ve heard David Fleming’s work-even if you didn’t know it at the time. Fleming’s music has threaded through some of the biggest films and TV shows around: he’s contributed to scores for Dune, Blue Planet II, and The Dark Knight Rises, and worked closely with Hans Zimmer on projects like X-Men: Dark Phoenix and Hillbilly Elegy. But talking to Fleming, you don’t get the sense of someone who’s chasing spectacle or showiness. He’s thoughtful, open, and quick to laugh about the quirks of his process.
When we sat down to chat, Fleming was candid about how he ended up in the world of TV and film music. He didn’t always know this was the path. He started out playing in bands, experimenting with sounds, and figuring out what moved him. That curiosity and willingness to try things-sometimes things that don’t work-still drives him today. He’s not precious about perfection. In fact, he seems to relish the happy accidents, the little imperfections that make a piece of music feel lived-in and real.
Working on The Last of Us has meant joining forces with Gustavo Santaolalla, whose original score for the video game is already iconic. Fleming is clear: this isn’t about reinventing the wheel. It’s about listening, responding, and finding ways to add something honest to the world Gustavo created. There’s a sense of mutual respect and creative shorthand between them- something Fleming says only happens when you really trust the people you’re working with.
What stands out most in our conversation is how much Fleming values the emotional core of a story. For him, music is less about technical fireworks and more about serving the moment. Sometimes that means picking up a broken guitar or letting a track breathe with silence. Sometimes it means stepping back and letting someone else’s melody take the lead. Fleming’s approach is collaborative, a little bit messy, and always rooted in what feels true.
Right now, Fleming is onto his next project, but he’s celebrating the release of HBO’s The Last of Us Season 2 and working alongside Gustavo Santaolalla to create a score that’s as much about what you don’t hear as what you do. It’s music that’s minimal, raw, sometimes ugly on purpose-always in service of the story and always pushing the edges of what a TV score can be.
It’s always great to see when game adaptations are made into TV shows, and they’re being so well-received. How does it feel to have the second season of The Last of Us out in the world?
David Fleming: My god. It's so exciting. I’m not really a gamer, let me say this. I have a problem with gaming; when I get into a game, it takes over my life. So, I have to keep it at an arm's length. I hadn't played The Last of Us, but getting keyed into that fan base, which has only grown since the show, has been really amazing because people are so passionate about that story. I think there's something specific about how a game, especially if it's got a great story like The Last of Us, can wrap people up in the experience of being that character. I think Craig and Neil were so smart about keeping that and embracing the game. Of course, Neil [Druckmann] was the creator of the game, but the game is also such a huge part of Craig [Mazin]. So yeah, it's a different type of excitement with Last of Us fans than other projects I've worked on. People are really, really wild about it, I love it!
What’s it like now, having your music opened up to a whole new pool of people and seeing what people are saying about the score and the show?
David Fleming: It's great and it's also a little bit wracking sometimes because they do have such strong opinions. But in general, I think, one of the really smart things that Craig and Neil did was to incorporate Gustavo's music because I think it was always a big part of the story and the experience and then I think for me coming on it was almost a case of how do we adapt this to a new medium?
I think a lot of my job, especially with these action scenes, is a very active experience. You are the character. And I think it was really important to Craig and Neil that when all of a sudden we're translating to this passive medium, that we still feel vicarious, kind of that thrill of when you're playing a game and you're actively living a character. I think the combination of the two, bringing that classic sound from The Last of Us, but also figuring out what the right things are to add to adapt to this new medium. I think they've been really clever about where to zig and where to zag.
“The nice thing about working with instruments that are maybe less loved is that they can become new characters.”
I wanted to talk to you about the scene in the episode of Through the Valley when all the infected come out running down the hill in the snow. What was that like to score?
David Fleming: That whole episode was sort of a management of intensity levels! Of course, it had to be intense, but then we also had to know where we were going for the whole siege of Jackson. So, whilst we were working on the whole season, we kept going back to episode two. Craig wanted to keep working on it, keep refining it, and there was a lot of talk of where we are, are we at 10? How can we start at 10 and still build the entire episode? We wanted to make sure everything felt right, but then the siege of Jackson would increase. It was more than any other episode I've ever worked on, It was like ‘How do we have this whole arc?’ Basically, from that point when the infected are running down the hill, until essentially Joel's death, the episode doesn't let up. So I remember trying lots of different versions of "Panic Attack" for that scene and the episode in general.
How long have you been spending on this show? And what about episode two in particular?
David Fleming: A few months, but other shows I've worked on, it's kind of like you tackle one episode at a time. There's a focus on different episodes, but the whole season is open basically until the end. So even while I was finishing the final episode, there were still changes being made on episode two. So yeah, I would say on and off different episodes for the past few months. But two was definitely the one that was the most constant through the whole process, because it was also such a visually effects-heavy episode. So much of it was changing up until the end, and the bloater, the giant infected, wasn't much to look at for most of the time I was scoring it; you have to use your imagination. But yeah, it really was amazing to see it come together, and a lot of times, the visual effects or sound were also informing me that we need to make changes to the music because this feels different now. So that one was kind of a constant work in progress.
Could you talk about your creative process in developing new themes or perhaps enhancing your themes for season 2, and what it’s been like talking with Gustavo?
David Fleming: One of the things Craig and Neil ask of me is how to create these vicarious, active experiences- music that envelops you so it doesn’t feel like you’re just listening to music. That’s a big part of my approach. My style isn’t really thematic; it’s more about sonic motifs and textures. Craig, in particular, often doesn’t want to hear a melody-he wants to define the sound of the infected, or of Abby and her crew, on a really granular level. So, for the infected, we might go for this frayed, bowed banjo guitar sound, while Abby’s group is much more militaristic, so that’s where synths and rhythmic drive come in. All of this sits alongside Gustavo’s score, which is more thematic and focused on the emotional side of the characters.
Our discussions are about how to define these different groups musically, but in a way that doesn’t pull you out of the story-so you’re not suddenly hit with a fanfare for Ellie or a dark motif for the antagonists. It has to sink into your subconscious. We built on the palette we established last season, with certain rules about what sounds belong to each group, but there are new elements now. In the first episode, for example, there’s this smart stalker, a new species or evolution of the infected. For that, I used a bowed dulcimer, which was actually the first thing I recorded for the episode- just an iPhone recording of me making the worst possible noise, which ended up as this vocal, almost shriek-like sound. I also used this instrument called a yazh: it’s tall, with two cello strings attached to springs and two giant frame drums, and its own spring reverb. It’s a really odd sound.
A lot of it is just experimenting, and I’m lucky to have a team of amazing sound designers. At the start of the season, there’s a lot of what I call “gathering ammunition”-filling hard drives with sounds you’d never play at a concert, but that end up being really impactful in context. And I should say also there’s the Sony games team-they’re involved with the music too, and they sort of shepherd the identity. So, a lot of times I’ll be running cues past Scott, who is the guy at Sony who really has been on all the games and knows Gustavo’s music inside out. He’s always a great sounding board and sort of the keeper of the The Last of Us flame.
I wanted to ask if there were any interesting recording techniques that you use for this season, or just even for both seasons.
David Fleming: Some of it is just like, wherever you are, whatever you have nearby is the thing to do. So, iPhone recordings have become strangely reliable. But also, I wouldn't say it's so much about the mics or anything. It's more about the character of the sound that we're looking for. We always want it to feel somewhat used. It's not the typical capture-the-most-pristine version of this. Sometimes it's about the performance of whatever the instrument is.
My friend Forest played cello, but it was the opposite of what a cello is usually asked to do. We got a cello that was used and kind of beat up, and it was really like, how do we get something out of this that feels broken, feels like time has moved on somehow? That sort of informs, I think, a lot of the The Last of Us sound, and to me, it's what I heard in Gustavo's original music for it and what I've tried to kind of make sure mine is always an insane cousin of, but there still is some DNA relation.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately: if our scores were characters in the The Last of Us universe, maybe we've both come upon the same post-apocalyptic pawn shop, and there are all these old guitars and banjos. Whereas maybe the character he plays is a guitar master and there's an emotional quality to seeing all these instruments again, maybe the character that my score plays is like an electronic musician who has never played a guitar or seen a guitar and is like, "Okay, I'm going to have to make music with this because I don't have my stuff." So I like to think of it as trying to take those same sources, those same sound sources, but approach them from a kind of different character perspective.
Do you find creative inspiration in using broken or unconventional instruments?
David Fleming: I grew up playing piano, and I can get around on most instruments, but sometimes when I encounter people who have really great instruments, there’s a kind of reverence that borders on fear-like, I don’t want to ask this instrument to bend for me. The nice thing about working with instruments that are maybe less loved is that they can become new characters. The sound can be totally unique. I have this one acoustic guitar that is nothing to write home about, but I’ve made it a method actor for so many different types of instruments and sounds. It’s just a different approach. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of times when I need to call in a real virtuoso player to make something great, but my side of the fence-at least on a show like this-is kind of half sound design. I think the quality and character of a sound is just as important as the notes it’s playing, especially in something like this.
Were there any specific challenges this season that really got under your skin or that you’d be happy to highlight?
David Fleming: I mean, certainly episode two was a challenge. In general, finding that right shape that makes you feel something without knowing you're being made to feel something is kind of the trick on every episode. Craig Mazin really wants to get into the weeds on the sonics. Sometimes it'll be very subtractive. The challenge can be that maybe I'll present a cue that's very full or busy, or maybe I've thrown a lot of ideas into it, and working with Craig, there will sometimes be a process of subtraction. Do we need this? What is the thing we need the most to feel, with the least amount of elements?
Sometimes, like with the siege of Jackson, it is more, for sure. But there are a lot of times- and I think with Joel's death, that was subtractive-until eventually we were playing with quite large gaps of silence. It's one of those things that, of course, you can get precious with: "But I made this sound and this is the perfect thing." But then, when you experience it as an episode and you try to watch it as a filmmaker and not as a composer, you can see the power of that. So I think that was always a challenge for when do I watch the scene as a composer, and when do I watch the scene as a filmmaker? It's about trying to pick the right times to then take the score in different ways.
“The way Gustavo plays with silence specifically is so inspiring. It makes me think about writing in a different way and about the importance of negative space.”
Did you learn to think like a filmmaker on the job, or did you already have that perspective before you started composing for film and TV?
David Fleming: I think music was always my way into film rather than the other way around. I was always most interested in film. I spent all my adolescence working at a video store, just absorbing tens of thousands of movies, and I think that’s probably the part of it I understand best in some ways-but in other ways, you’re always learning more. Especially from my experience working with Hans, I saw how he embraced the filmmaker side. It’s not so much about “I need to get my track in here, I need to get my tune in here.” It really is about this holistic craft of filmmaking, and that’s the part that excites me the most. I enjoy-don’t get me wrong, I love being able to write a tune. Not that there’s much of that on The Last of Us, but I just did this A24 film, Eternity, where I got to write a melodic score, and that was so much fun, and there’s so much energy in that. But what I’ve always been interested in is working with other filmmakers and looking at it from that lens. What’s best for the story, what’s best for the movie, not just “I need to express myself musically.” It’s more about, how do I get inside this story? So yeah, it’s a constant learning process, and part of that is just me still watching things, experiencing things, working with new filmmakers, and getting different perspectives.
Every filmmaker is different, right? Do you find you have to learn each person’s language and way of working to collaborate?
David Fleming: Totally. There’s always a point at the end of every project I do with a new filmmaker where I think, “I wish I could start again,” because it takes a while to understand somebody’s vocabulary. The biggest thing is usually: do they have a small note that they’re making sound like a big note, or do they have a big note that they’re making sound small? Something like that can take you on a tangent for a long time. Some people will say “heavy” when they mean a low sound-it’s kind of an amazing thing. By the end of a project, you have this second language that you can speak with another creative, and the nice thing is that sometimes you get to work with somebody again, and then you have that insight already.
What did you take away from working with Gustavo Santaolalla? Is there something from that experience you’ll carry with you?
David Fleming: In fact, I didn't even meet him until after we were done with season one. We sort of have different sides of the street for this score, but I've been an admirer of his music for such a long time. The Motorcycle Diaries is one of my favourite scores of all time. I’ve enjoyed the conversations I’ve been able to have with him throughout this process. Even though we’re handling different sides, my contribution to The Last of Us score is definitely in reverence to what he’s done, and I always try to make sure it honours his work. I think he’s been really appreciative of that. He’s such a true artist, and you can really feel it in the way he plays.
One thing I’ve certainly picked up from working alongside him-even if not directly, is stealing little bits of wisdom. The way he plays with silence specifically is so inspiring. It makes me think about writing in a different way and about the importance of negative space. I’ve been lucky enough to work with a lot of composers I admire, but he’s someone who really embraces silence and negative space in a unique way.
